I honestly wondered if I would ever use this again, but sure enough, here we are..
I can't say that I'm too happy about having to post a blog, but I guess some of the blind hatred has forced "baby" out of her "corner" to drop some knowledge. So far, the reaction to WWE '12 has been astounding! We couldn't have hoped for anything better, and the development team truly deserves some awesome credit this year. Another audience deserves credit as well, YOU. Well, not all of you, but a good amount who truly took what we had to say last year to heart, and committed to helping us make the best possible game we could. Without your feedback, we wouldn't be where we are now, that's for sure.
On with the show...
6 Diva Matches
Cory said in his Q&A that this isn't possible due to polygonal count. This isn't an excuse, and is true. If you don't believe, then ask yourself these questions:
1.) We know there are hacks out there (you're not hard to find), why would Cory say what he said knowing that you guys can do what you want via hacks? Did you ever stop to think that Cory knows about actually making the games? I picked that question out for the sole purpose of getting Cory's response for you guys.
2.)This was absolutely a controlled Q&A based on what we can say at this point (PR timelines -- I'll come to that later). Why would Cory have even answered it if it wasn't true? The answer, because it was the truth. And you know this, man!
3.)Let us prove it to you -- we have a plan, let us show it to you!
Bottom line, when we can prioritize the proper work involved to make things happen, we will. Not this year, though... Here's why.
GAMEPLAY, GAMEPLAY, GAMEPLAY
In case you haven't heard, gameplay was the big focus for us this year -- and it should have been. We've heard from you guys for the longest time that our gameplay needs addressed. We're finally doing that this year with our "Predator Technology." Nice guess, guys, "Predator" obviously has a tie-in with Randy Orton, but here's what the tech actually is as we would describe it internally:
- Our SvR gameplay tech caused the "picturebook" effect, meaning that each animation had missing frames in it, creating a flip picture book look. As the game got older, you'd notice this more. This is where the term "herky-jerky" came from (made famous from NFL 2K). What our new tech allows us to do, is fill those missing frames in with an animation, creating blending from one animation to the next. It makes for a much smoother experience.
- Physics now come in to play via our gameplay tech upgrade. Now, if you walk by another person and glance their shoulder, they'll move accordingly. This means that your opponent is an actual in-ring object that has true interaction.
The gameplay tech upgrade was a massive undertaking. Most of our time was spent taking our old data, and hooking it in with this new upgrade. Have you played NBA 2K? Have you noticed some of the same looking animations in their game since the earlier days? Yep -- but they look a whole lot better now. That's our reality.
You're right, this is an upgrade and not a new engine. We never said it would be, and we made the right choice to do it this way. Why didn't we do a completely new engine? Here's why:
- We make a game every year, and this gives us the opportunity to replace the "house" brick by brick vs a demolish and redo effort. If that's the case, you'd have Madden 06 / FIFA 06, instead, this allows us to be more like a NBA 2K -- any questions?
- A new gameplay tech upgrade does not mean that it will "LOOK" visually different than what you've seen before. When we say you have to play it and see side by side comparisons, we mean it. We're still the WWE sim game, so we have to keep up a certain visual degree to stay real to true WWE programming. The visual improvements come in with the slight texture and modeling upgrades (note: not gameplay related), and our physics and blending that is made possible by the "Predator tech."
- If we wanted a new engine, our current team size would not make that a possibility at the moment. We're making a game every year, and we don't have the resources to try to build new engines and prove them out while doing what we're doing now. Money doesn't come out of thin air, and although some may think we're just raking in the dough -- we're not.
Haters Gonna Hate
There's negative feedback (which is needed and constructive), and there's hating. Don't mix it up, we know the difference. I'll take responsibility for making some of you think that you'll get an official reaction if you SHOUT false assumptions. That's going to stop now, I promise.
We're in the business of making games, and we reached out to you guys to help us make a great game (games moving forward). At this point, if you're hating, you're not helping. We're out here every day trying to solicit feedback from all of you. USE THIS OPPORTUNITY! We've proven to you now that your feedback from SvR 2011 was not only heard, but implemented where it could be. Even now your feedback is being heard. Keep turning your heads to it (the few), you're missing some great things.
PR Timelines
This is literally the one that pains me to write about, because it makes me think that no one has learned anything from last year. If we're ever going to get anywhere, then there needs to be actual thinking on both sides. We've done the work to understand where you're coming from, please do the same and try to learn and understand where we are too. Some of you are really good at digging for things if it supports your opinion, but can you do the same sort of digging to find things that don't (the truth)?
Anyway, like every single game in this industry, we have a timeline plan from the start of a campaign to launch. The timeline is filled with spots where new information on the game is revealed. Whether it's a website exclusive article talking about RtWM, or a new trailer, it's all on there. The issue I see you guys having, is that you still don't understand that this exists. Sometimes, when I see the failure to understand this pretty simplistic concept that's a staple of our industry, I think of the seagulls in Finding Nemo who don't listen and learn, but just shout "MINE, MINE, MINE," or in this case, "INFO, INFO, INFO."
We want to give you the information, we just can't right now and when we can, you'll forget about this moment because you got what you were looking for -- INFO. Please understand this difference.
Surveys Weren't for Nothing
Do you remember those surveys we frequently put out last year? Ok, now do you remember some of you saying that "they probably won't do anything with this?" Well, I think you're seeing that we took them very seriously. They helped us with our prioritization. We saw point blank that gameplay was the biggest issue for you guys, and in even more detail than that. That was much more concrete than going to random message boards to look at what one or two (or 20) people wanted. This way, we got a huge sample size and some great feedback.
In closing, I'll say this until I'm blue in the face -- we're here for you. Without you, we wouldn't have this game, so we're trying very hard to get you on board with helping us so that you'll understand what it takes to not only make a game, but do it every year. Expectations are set by YOU, not us. We want you to buy our game, yes, but we're not going to "sell" you on it. The purchasing decision is yours, and we wont force you. But we will prove it to you, and we have till 11/22 to do it.
The burden is on us, not you. Let us PROVE IT!
Oh yeah, I can't wait for the "Why don't you keep working on the actual game instead of typing novels" comment. No win situation, but I love it!
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Appreciate it, Marcus. My response:
ReplyDelete-I had figured that the "replacing it brick by brick" method was what you guys had to do, so please keep doing that and optimizing it.
-I really would like to know, legitimately, why the devs cannot do what "modifications" can. This is beginning to be less about me wanting 6-woman matches legitimately in, and more of a tech curiosity.
I am still sorely disappointed in the lack of 6-woman matches, but I will continue to give the game's development a fair shot. Heck, if you guys implement Create-A-Belt and allow it to be set to be defended for most anything (like Inferno Champ, or Women's Tag Champ,etc.), I will completely forgive the lack of 6-woman matches.
Haters will hate, but there is definitely a hardcore fanbase that wants to give a fair shot with each entry. Keep up the hard work.
"LOL U GUYZ R DUM AND WERE SMART. WE CANT EXPLAIN TO U CUZ UR TOO DUM TO GET IT SO STOP BEIN HATURZ"
ReplyDeleteThat summary is a bit of a stretch, "Anonymous" :)
ReplyDeleteSo many great points made--especially with the constructive criticism vs. people simply hating for the sake of hating, and not understanding the PR methods of releasing info (how many years have we all been doing this now?) at certain intervals. I'll definitely be spreading this around. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
ReplyDeleteGood blog Marcus. You have to understand that the average fan on the internet thinks that you guys have an unlimited budget and unlimited resources to make this game. They believe that you should be able to give them a completely new game each year. People who do not understand the reality of the industry (or how business works in general) are never going to be satisfied with a yearly title. People who want a new engine need to realize that means that every feature you have in the game now would have to be redeveloped from scratch, which means 5-10 years just to get back to where we are now, and by that time the new engine would be outdated again. Just look at madden. It has taken them 6 years just to get franchise mode back to about where it was on Ps2/Xbox. Do you people really want that?
ReplyDeleteWith that being said, you know how I feel about THQ's marketing dept. They seem to be very behind the times and market this game the same way it has been done for 10 years.
I understand there is a release schedule for information on features and such. I am fine with that, but why not give that schedule to fans. EA told us exactly what date we could expect info about each mode. This was smart. Fans (most of us) are not stupid. If you treat us like adults, the majority of us will act like adults. Don't tell me that you cannot talk about something yet. Tell me what date I can expect to hear about it. And, by that, I don't mean "around summer slam". You guys need to do what EA is doing with their "play book" and let us know what your marketing plan is. We can handle it, what we can't handle is being kept in the dark.
This once again is the marketing department's backwards thinking. They believe they are building anticipation by being secretive when in reality they are building resentment. All I ask is that you treat me as an educated consumer.
I think you guys need to do a better job of talking about the things you can talk about. I have read all the coverage from E3 and I still don't really know how the grapple system works. You said that there were no more weak and strong grapples, but from every thing I have seen there are still weak grapples (how many I don't know) and 4 strong grapples. So, how is that different? Why don't I know this by now. I would like to know how many moves each superstar has and how that compares to last year. There is no reason you can't talk about that yet. I want to know if there have been any improvements to the existing CAF like removing the limitations of only certain impact animations being linked to other animations instead of letting us choose from the most possible number of animations that already are there. There is so much you guys could talk about without breaking the info release timeline. Hopefully this will all be addressed in the FAQ project and it won't just be a bunch of questions like Does John Cena have his new shoes this year.
ReplyDeleteI also think that you guys rely to heavily on community managers and fan sites. Again, this is THQ not getting with the times. I want to communicate with someone who works for THQ, not some fanboy who played the game on THQ's dime. I don't want to have to visit 12 websites to find out what the game is like. I don't get why you guys do this. You guys should be driving traffic to your own website and your community managers (ones with actual access to the game and the designers) should be active on the forums every day. Every bit of info available should be in one place. You guys should be doing your own podcasts instead of being on Joe Shmuck's awful podcast where I have to hear them talk about nonsense that no one cares about for 45 minutes before getting any info. There was a time when sites like Caws.ws and gamingring were important, but with facebook, twitter and THQ's own forums, I don't see the need for that any more.
For instance, it makes no sense to me that you guys would invite 10 guys to play the game and tell us about it rather than trying to release a demo to the general public. If you would have released the E3 demo to the public, you would have gotten 10,000 times the amount of feedback. If that is not feasible, then you guys should have done/be doing a lot more live stream chats with the general public so that we can ask questions directly to you. Marcus does a good job of trying to answer questions, but Tank rarely answers them. I don't know if he is not allowed or if that isn't his role. Both of you need to be giving us info that you are allowed to give on a consistent basis. You have to realize you are pretty much a monopoly on wrestling games now, so really both community managers need to be active in interacting with fans and THQ needs to focus more on direct interaction with the community through social media and their own site rather than releasing snippets of info to a dozen small fan sites.
Good post, Red Dead. We're not talking creation modes, because we're not there in the timeline (CAF).
ReplyDeleteAs for moves, we didn't remove any options from last year. There are 24 chain grapple moves, and 4 groggy grapple moves per 3 positions in my current build. That was pre-E3. I haven't said anything to you b/c it needs to be answered properly, and I don't want to mistakenly say something wrong. I don't know if any changes have happened b/c you also have to understand our day. I know to you, we should be on the boards day in and day out answering questions, and getting feedback -- and we do, but there are other things that fill up our day as well.
1.) Meetings - sucks, but necessary
2.) Website content - this stuff doesn't go up automatically, it takes time to do
3.) E-mail communication - this helps us communicate internally, but things also depend on two way communication, and when you depend on people who have other jobs and priorities to do, that is an issue in any corporate workplace.
You keep comparing us to Madden, and while there are certain similarities, I'll nix one thing right now. Team size. We have 1/3 the team size that Madden has, and that's your reasoning for designers not being able to answer every question all of the time. Also, would they want to at this point? It's their choice to do so, and if you think guys like Ian Cummings, Phil Frazier, etc. enjoyed the berating, think again. While they did the good deed, they are a few in an industry of thousands who put themselves out there. It's not easy, but it's also a choice.
You can't say things like "put out an E3 demo to the public." Again, that's cost that we may not necessarily have, and if we did, that's not my choice to make. Our marketing teams are very passionate people who love this business (sports entertainment) at their very core. They've put together an absolutely brilliant WWE '12 campaign that I'm excited about.
I get that you want to know the information that we're talking about, and I want to tell you. We ARE going to tell you, it's just a now vs later. We have months, we want to explain and show you in detail. Videos, etc. take time to produce.
Our community leader system is no different than EA Sports. How do I know? I developed it over there, and my brother in law, Justin Dewiel has expanded it to the "Game Changers" program. (We're working on ours) Our community sites aren't "small" fansites, they are places where like-minded individuals like yourself go to. Like our forums, they exist to have a very different voice than our official forums. They want their opinions heard, and we want to hear them. They're in place to help with the load because, in all honesty, we simply don't have the time to do it all on our own. Literally no one does.
We're doing this FAQ now to help with what you're describing. Can't help that it isn't when you're expecting it (which is now)
You have your expectations, and they're warranted (much respect). This will always be an on-going process between both of our parties (development and community). You're always awesome with this feedback, man. I take it to heart, and please continue with it.
Thanks Marcus. This is SpiderMike from Twitter.People seem to think you guys have a magic wand to wave and 'poof' it's done. LOL I'd like to see them walk up to their boss and say "I demand to know right now the marketing schedule for August" They would probably get written up or fired on the spot.I WOULD like to know how many per cent of the people polled still wanted an Inferno match in the game. I think there are more important things to address(improved Tag Team AI,cage match,etc) and if people want an Inferno match so bad,offer it to them for purchase in a future DLC.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the good work.
Marcus,
ReplyDeleteAs always, thanks for your time and commitment to the fanbase. I understand how frustrating it can be to be barraged by the Howler monkey type of fan. It's unfortunate that those people often drown out us simple, respectful Capuchin monkeys. (Yes, I googled various types of primates for the purposes of this post. I really should focus on my day job.)
Red Dead Marshal did make a point I agree with--the mystery of the PR timeline. I completely understand the rationale behind it, but I do think that the type of fan who feverishly follows development via Twitter and message boards is also the type of fan who would be better suited knowing when to expect what. It's like a bunch of kids in the backseat asking "are we there yet?" and being shushed. The more they have to ask, the more they unite into a big, loud chorus of impatient little gibbons. So throw them a banana. (I do think the upcoming Q&A project could be that banana).
I for one am very excited about WWE 12' and I'm very excited by what I've seen so far. I do feel like many of the major flaws from SvR 2011 have been addressed, and that alone could make for a much more solid game. Can't wait to see what else is in store.
Thanks drek!
ReplyDeleteCloset,
Thanks for that, and I agree with you to an extent (PR dates). Some we just don't know yet b/c we've yet to nail down a method of release (which outlet gives the info, etc.).
But you guys do bring up a big point that I'll voice loudly.
Thanks Marcus. You know I respect your opinion. I don't think my expectations are quite as high as you make them out to be. I didn't mean to imply that you guys should be spending 8 hours a day answering fan questions on the message boards. I know you have more responsibilities than just that. I just think someone from THQ should check in on the forums once a day or once every other day, let us know what you guys are doing and maybe answer some questions posted there. I know you guys do this, I would just like it to be more consistent.
ReplyDeleteYou said, " Our community sites aren't "small" fansites, they are places where like-minded individuals like yourself go to." Not sure I agree with that anymore. The role of sites like that has diminished exponentially in the wake of advances in technology, both within the game and in social media. I have noticed the the forums on fan sites (not sites like IGN) have been significantly less active over the life of SVR11 than they have been for any game in the past. At one time, those sites played a crucial role in marketing the game and in developing a community for the game. There were multiple reasons for this. In the past THQ didn't communicate with fans. Bryan would appear around summerslam, tell us the new features, do a few interviews up until release time and then the entire THQ staff would vanish from the face of the earth until it was time to hype the next game. We had no choice but to gather in groups and discuss the game with each other. It was the only way THQ could reach out to us as well. The only info we got was what thq gave to these sites and magazines. Another reason, which may be the biggest, was that we had no way of sharing community creations with each other except by way of the internet and sites like caws.ws. There was no way to get that Randy Savage caw you really wanted except to join one of these sites. Now, with the advances in technology within the game, there is very little need for sites like this other than to share ideas with other creators and to preview a CAS. I know you are active on the forums and so I know you know how far fewer people were active on this year once the game was released. There was simply no need for the casual fan to go to a site like this anymore because of the amazing community creations feature in the game. I can show you dozens of posts of regular caw makers who have been active on these sites for years complaining about the lack of feed back they were getting this year. I would be willing to bet that the number of total posts for SVR11 were not a third of what they were for SVR09. Also, once you guys started communicating directly with fans through facebook and twitter, the roles these sites played were made even less important. Why would anyone want Joe Smith to ask you a question when I can submit my question directly to you? I can only speak for me, but I would much rather you and Tank do a semi professional sounding podcast than have to sit through 45 minutes of a bunch of goofs talking about their day at work in the mall while their kids scream in the background before getting any real info from a dev. Sure these sites have impressive membership numbers, but those aren't real numbers. When you join a site like that, you never unjoin it. You continue to be listed as a member there even if you never are active on the site. They never clean their membership because it is much more advantageous for them to have 30,000 members versus the 300 that are actually active.
I would be willing to bet that if your forums were better organized and more fan friendly their would be even less activity on the other sites. To me, this would be ideal. I would much rather see one unified community where you and us occupy the same space than to have a group of fringe communities. I would much rather you guys do official live stream game play while answering questions from fans than to see some grainy cell phone video and read someone else's thoughts on a fan site. In fact, with the internet, facebook and twitter, I find it more of a nuisance to have to search for info on these sites than anything else.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I like this faq project idea. That is a step in the right direction. It is one place I can go to for answers... I don't have to spend hours searching for info across multiple fan sites. Quite frankly, the only reason those sites exist is because THQ did almost nothing to develop a community for the game on it's own. However, that has been changing over the past couple of years. That is a very good thing. We are moving in the right direction and I would like to thank all of you for that.
Totally awesome, Red Dead. Thanks for this.
ReplyDeleteMarcus glad to see the blog...I have to show empathy to the THQ's team because of a group of haters. I understand some of it is ignorance and some of it pure excuse the term "jackasses" I know community members have been victims of haters backlash...I just brush them off and let it go.
ReplyDeleteI have been making youtube videos and getting feedback does the game look the same yes...but there are updates that were much needed for the game. I'm one of the people who support Gameplay > Graphics first over anything else in a game. Will there be an issue in WWE'12? Yes. All games have issues and there some ideas and improvements I want seen by THQ...
1. More moves added to the game...(More moves are vital to continue the games fun) The variety is key I understand its a WWE game first but more moves are needed in my honest opinion. Whether its cheaper/better to Mo-Cap vs Computer Animated (Like past games) I don't know but wanted to provide options for THQ to look at.
2. Adding the idea of a superstar's locker room where we change HHH's attire from "The Game" to "DX" to "Hunter Hearst Helmsly" same for legends and other attires. Allow options for different trunks, elbow pads, entrance attires, and carrying props tot the ring "sledgehammer". This gives us an many options to add more to our characters from entrance attires and special moments. It also prevents people putting a wrestler in a skirt. Is this possible right away I'm not sure but putting an idea out there.
3. Misc. Ideas - Just a few ideas I wanted to throw out to THQ and community while on my mind
a.)Start-Up Match Mini-Games/After Match Attacks (Random option)
b.)Running - I wish running in WWE'12 could be like WWE All-Stars so wrestlers would have to gather their step before changing direction would cut down on run move abuse.
c.) Backstage Interaction/ Arena Interaction - I would like to see arena interaction where fighting on the stage provides different situation slamming into titantron or diving off WWE Logo on stage.
d.) Turnbuckle Taunts - A small idea but very cool to taunt in a match with.
e.) Weight Detection - For superstars and ability to climb ropes would be cool
f.) Sound- for commentary and fan reactions
g.) Reversals to Reversals - Similar to All-Stars
I could go on but I'll stop there I have video discussing topics like this on my
youtube channel youtube.com/bigdaddy0207
One Last Idea for "PR" what if THQ issued a "Timeline" to keep fans excited throughout the year. They could have their own calender for all announcements and interviews and we can keep looking where Marcus, Tank, Bryan, and more will be doing interviews on a THQ official website.
Just my ideas would love some feedback on this. THQ thanks for the surveys and keep up the hard-work on WWE games.
Do NOT call SvR a wwe "sim" game. It's far too sloppy to be taken as seriously. WWF No Mercy for N64 IS a sim game in every aspect.
ReplyDeleteMoves flowed smoothly into one another (ex: snapmare into sleeper), Hooking the leg on pins had better effect, reversing moves resulted in momentum shifts (not stupid back and fourth minigames), and your opponent didn't magically reverse a pin attempt into a low blow after getting hit by 3 pedigrees.
I'm sorry but you have a long way to go before you can call WWE '12 a sim game.
Oh Anon, you're hilariously full of crap.
ReplyDeleteHere's the facts. No Mercy is HORRIBLY overrated. Horribly, severely overrated. Quite honestly, it's not even that good of a game. At all.
It's held up on a ridiculous pedestal by nostalgia blinded fanboys who'se overblown memories of it, lets them conveniently forget how much it sucked.
I bought this when it was new. I hated it then. I still do. No Mercy is NOT a Sim game. Never was. You have to be on drugs to even jokingly saw that it was. No Mercy had broken gameplay, it was frustating, the AI was dirt stupid, and everything comes down to either button mashing, or repetitive, molassis-speed grapples that are barely even effective.
No Mercy is just mindless Rock-Em-Sock-Em Robots stuck on a crappy 3 second control delay that requires very little skill to actually play, but takes literally forever to do one simple thing or complete a single infuriating match.
It's also slow, the animations are sloggy and terrible, the physics feel like the game is taking place under water, it's a frustrating button mashing mess where controls are poor and don't respond, and literally every match aside from a 1-on-1 match is a boring, irritating, badly implemented match that takes 16 hours of slow wrestlers that act like they're made of lead, offset by a control delay that takes hours for a sloggy match to complete.
The story mode sucks, everyone's dialouge is trapped in 3rd grader reading comprehension mode, makes basically no sense, characters shake and wobble around like they have Parkinsons, matches are sloggy and horrendously unresponsive, Royal Rumble is flat out unplayable, the CAW mode is extremely sub-par even for the time (Even Smackdown 2 had a superior CAW mode to No Mercy), with No Mercy's ONLY saving grace is editable wrestlers and 4 alt attires. That's literally it. It's the ONLY reason why No Mercy fanboys remember it, because you could edit Undertaker or Kurt Angle. Whoopdedo.
But even if you could make a decent CAW (that has no customization, no placeable tattoos, no customation whatsoever aside from the most basic of "mix and match" crap.. something that even WWF Attitude and Smackdown 2's character creations managed to be superior at.
Literally every other game at the time was a superior graphics update, too. The N64 was a pretty shoddy system in the first place, based on it's inferior and already outdated Cartridge based ROM, and a terrible controller that made all of No Mercy's sloppy coding, bad underwater physics, annoying and frustrating matches, crappy story mode, outdated, bad CAW, horrendous audio that sounds like a tinny 5 inch speaker buried under a foot of dirt, the awful looking Animated Gif trons, The scratchy horrible theme songs, the laughable inaccuracy of the roster at the time, and the godawful unlockables (Because everyone wants to play as Jim Ross, Linda McMahon and The Kat, right?), the list of things No Mercy failed at can go on and on and on.
And here you sit, trying to say that the SvR series isn't a sim, and No Mercy is, when No Mercy didn't even have remotely correct Wrestler Entrances? You fail, sir, You fail.
(cont)
ReplyDeleteNo Mercy was never a sim. It was arcady, unresponsive, and crappy. It held very little actual replayability, not one tenth of the creation modes that SvR has, either.
Did No Mercy have Story Designer? No.
Did No Mercy allow stat editing for Superstars? No.
Did No Mercy have Create-A-Finisher? No.
Did No Mercy have a decent story mode like Road To Wrestlemania? HELL no.
Did No Mercy have half of the match types that SvR has? No.
Did No Mercy have Create-An-Entrance? No.
Did No Mercy have any of the hotspots or ring interactivity to match what was possible on TV? No.
Did No Mercy have any abilities or anything that sets Superstars apart from each other aside from what moves they have? No.
Did No Mercy have an actual stamina system to speak of? No.
Did No Mercy have AI balancing options? No.
Did No Mercy have any stat tracking or decent booking modes whatsoever that a decent sim would have? No.
I could go on and on telling the god's honest truth and the straight comparative facts about the games, but you get my point: You're completely, 100% factually wrong with what you say, Anon.
No Mercy has NOTHING SIM-LIKE and NO SIM ASPECTS WHATSOEVER that the SvR series HAS had and HAS been improving upon for over 10 years straight.
Not to mention that the Second Smackdown game to come out AFTER the N64 died off was straight up better than No Mercy ever was. Flash forward to ALL these games later and it's even more obvious how far better they ALL are, then friggin' No Mercy.
No Mercy is not a sim.
It never has been.
Every Smackdown vs Raw Game > No Mercy. True fact.
Stop living in the past. It's old and outdated. Wake up from your delusional sleep. It's not 2000 anymore. The real world has advanced 12 years since then and so have Wrestling Games.
Thank you.
And I'm the fanboy?
ReplyDeleteLOL
Now that I have the time to sit down and respond to sincethedawn, I can tell you why YOU'RE wrong.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, No Mercy didn't need gimmicky BS like story designer. It was on Nintendo 64 and competing with "smackdown2", which was fun for an arcade wrestling game. No Mercy's predecessor, Wrestlemania2000, HAD road to wrestlemania, which had a season mode entirely ripped off of by Smackdown2. Coincidence? I think not.
The season mode in No mercy was actually based off of REAL storylines that happened at the time, from Jericho beating Triple H and getting the decision reversed on RAW, to Rock getting screwed by Vince at Wrestlemania. Of course, you must be one of those stupid WWE marks who started watching in 2005 and think Batista is the best wrestler ever. He's terrible, btw.
On another note, there is no 3 second delay with the controllers, you just suck. Say what you want about the animations, but the big moves actually made the ring shake. Oh, and if you missed a flying move like a Swanton bomb, you didn't get right back up and brush it off. The smackdown2 animations were terrible themselves, and alot of them didnt get removed until SvR2006. The Royal Rumble? it was actually very fun, if you didn't give up after one match because you can't play a game that actually takes strategy.
Now, here's a list of things that the Yuke's series "Borrowed" from no mercy 3+ years after its release:
-Limb Damage
-Blood
-A normal paced 3 count
-The ability to do ANY move through an announce table (which got removed AGAIN in 2011)
-Moves onto weapons (which they didnt get right until 2011)
-Climbing to the ropes for a break on a submission
-running ground attacks
-turnbuckle back grapples
-tree of woe dropkick to face
-standing on the apron
-apron grapples + attacks + Asai Moonsaults
-editing superstar's attires (SvR2010 threadz. Alittle late guys dont you think?)
-A currency system for unlockables
-Irish whip to the ring post on the outside
I probably left a few things out.
Oh, and no mercy DID allow stat editing for superstars. I'll let you slide for missing it though.. its hard to figure out how to do it with your head up your ass. Create a PPV was the booking mode in no mercy, and it worked almost exactly the way it did in Smackdown2. Also, every superstar had their own AI. Some taunted alot, some reversed more than others, and making them bleed changes the way they fight too. Far more advanced than Smackdown2, which didnt have blood. At all.
One more thing, No Mercy paid homage to Japanese legends like Kenta Kobashi and Mitsuharu Misawa in its own ways. It was a game for TRUE wrestling fans, NOT just WWE/F fanboys.
Thank you.
I just wanted to repost something that I said on the IGN board not too long ago, I think it would fit in perfectly with what's being discussed currently here.
ReplyDeleteI implore not just you, but everyone, to not completely waste your full judgement on the builds that they are showing off now. It's not the complete game and I have full faith in THQ/Yukes that they'll be able to pull off an amazing start to a new era. You mentioned the AKI game No Mercy, things that they got right, but what about the things that Smackdown got right over that game? We can't just forget everything that Smackdown gave to us because AKI had some things done right in their games, there are plenty of things that have been done right in the Smackdown series as well.
I don't know how many people know of this, but when AKI knew they weren't going to be making the WWE games any longer THQ were in a rut and didn't know who to get to continue on making WWE games for them. AKI themselves were the ones that had full faith in Yukes and believed in them as a team that they'd be able to take the franchise to new heights and be able to make some really great games. I don't think Yukes has failed in that department to be honest. To think about it, the AKI games would've gotten as stale as the Yukes games has become, great gameplay or not.
The gameplay was already becoming more and more stagnant as they began to make more WCW/WWE games throughout the years. The gameplay was almost indiscernible between the WCW and WWE games that came out during their tenure with the two brands. Yukes came in and gave the series of WCW and WWE games a breath of fresh air with each game they produced for them. They continue to innovate and give the fans the things that they want in a wrestling video game. No it's not perfect, but neither was AKI for how great of a series they created, it had major flaws as well.
I am a firm believer in THQ/Yukes, they have impressed me time and time again year over year with their Smackdown games since inception. There has been a few disappointments down the road but Yukes are an incredible team and THQ are very good at listening and gauging what the fans want and trying their best to get it done. I believe that WWE'12 will impress anyone that is a true WWE fan, if there is ONE thing that Yukes ALWAYS got right over AKI was the unbelievable realism when it came to the presentation of the games that they create for the WWE.
You can tell that Yukes are huge WWE fans because it shows in their work, AKI, as amazing as they were, basically took their Japanese series of wrestling games and copied and pasted WCW and WWE wrestlers and storylines over it. Yukes didn't do the same with their Japan series and the WWE series, they took their time out and made it a totally different experience from their Japan counterpart, and things like that show me that Yukes are a dedicated team and they work damn hard to give fans what they want because they are fans of the product themselves.